http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/12/23/62762458.html
Interview with Valentina Colombo- expert in the geopolitics of the Islamic world and Professor at the European University in Rome, Italy.
If we look at the Muslim Brotherhood, which is a very interesting phenomenon, could you remind our listeners of how it all started?
It all started in 1928 in Egypt with the person Hassan al-Banna who is the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. And the Muslim Brotherhood wasn’t born in Cairo, that’s it wasn’t born in a town, in a big center but it was born outside. So, it was started as an association, it all started as an association and Muslim association which wanted to prevent the expansion of Christian preachers in Egypt. And almost nobody knows this but the first idea was to stop a certain kind of preaching from the Christian point of view.
As soon as they were born they switched to a very social work, so the main aim of the association has always been to help people because of course the Christian preachers went to people. So, Hassan la-Banna decided that even Muslims had to have some kind of association working with and for people. Of course everything was based on Koranic teachings and so everything was founded on the Koranic preaching, it says that men have to help each other, to be solidary with each other and of course the most important thing was that Muslims have to help Muslims, that’s it.
So, it all started in a very simple way and another thing is that Hassan al-Banna left just a few very, very few writings. And all his followers know by heart his teachings, know by heart the Koran and all their life is around this two sources – the Koran and the teachings of Hassan al-Banna. And I think that we always have to bear in mind that in Europe we have his grandson Tariq Ramadan, he is Hassan al-Banna’s grandson, Tariq Ramadan who is known as a reformer inside Islam but we have to be very, very clear that he follows, not officially of course, but he follows the path of his grandfather. And even in Switzerland for instance we have Tariq Ramadan’s brother, working there and all the sons of Hassan al-Banna are working very well in Europe, in Egypt and of course now in all the Middle East.
But what kind of Islam is Muslim Brotherhood following?
It is a very strict Islam and we have to bear in mind that the main aim of the Muslim Brotherhood is to rebuild a unified Islamic state. So, this is very clear, this is their main aim, they write this, they say this. So, it is clear that to have a unified Islamic state, this unified Islamic state is to be build on pillars of Sharia, of Koran in an interpretation which is not a liberal interpretation but is a very conservative interpretation.
So, of course if you want an Islamic state, this state has to be build on Sharia, that is a divine law based on Koran and sayings of Mohammed. For instance, because of the Muslim Brotherhood influence in Egypt, that starting from 1980 in the Egyptian Constitution article 2 we have that Sharia is the main source of the law and it is very important because before it used to be – Sharia is one of the sources of the law that meant that there could be even secular sources, more other sources, not only the Sharia.
But after 1980 in Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood managed to have this article changed and it is the same until now, it is still alive, that Sharia is the main source of the law. And this is very important because this means that for instance in Egypt until now if you want to have your identity card you have to put your own religion but the problem is that your religion can only be Muslim, Christian or Jewish. If you are other, if you are atheist, if you are Buddhist, if you are a Baha’i you won’t get your identity card.
No?
Yes, it’s true. And this is the problem, this is the Sharia because the Sharia says that Islam of course is the definitive religion, is the last religion that is very good, the last one revelation. But at the same time it recognizes the other two among basic religions that is the Jewish and the Christian but at the same time they are the second class religions. So, they are put under the protection but at the same time they are recognized. If you are of other, I don’t want to say if you apostate from Islam and changed your religion, so you just have to be killed on the basis of Sharia law.
Oh, really?
Yes, but at the same time in Egypt, if you are not Christian, Jew or Muslim you cannot get your identity card unless you just tell a lie, you just declare that you are a Muslim when you are not a Muslim. And at the same time even though you can get your identity card and in your identity card it is written that you are a Christian, of course you will have some problems in your life because you are identified through your religion and your religion is not the best one that is the Muslim.
If you read Arab newspapers, articles written by Arab intellectuals, Arab people who of course, they perfectly know who the Muslim Brotherhood are, they are totally disappointed and they are totally scared about a victory of the Muslim Brotherhood. In Tunisia, they are really scared about their future after the victory of the Muslim Brotherhood in the elections.
And you know, it is very astounding because it is just enough to read the newspapers, Arabic newspapers, to know and to realize that there is something wrong about our – Western position. For instance, just to go back to Tunisia, Rachid Gannouchi who is the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Tunisia, all during the electorate campaign said – ok, we are not going to change anything that touches women, for instance in our country, we don’t want Tunisian women to go back since Tunisian women since 1956 they have a very secular personal code forbidding polygamy for instance. So, he declared – ok we are not going to touch this and after the elections said again – we are not going to touch this kind of things but at the same time he said – ok we would like to run the Ministry of Education.
This is very, very typical of the Muslim Brotherhood. So, they have their aims, they want to change something but if they cannot do it straight that is now, they will do it in 10 years time if they get the Ministry of Education they will change programs, they will change new generations and of course in 10 years time it would be very natural to change what they want to change. They are very settled, they are very clever, they are perfect, really.
I wish they were liberals so organized but they aren’t, this is why the Muslim Brotherhood is even lucky because there are no other choices, all their opponents are really weak, they have no money, they are not organized and they are not so well introduced in the society as they are. So, and the problem is that they are very well introduced in the countries and now they have even the allowance coming from the West. So, it’s really their golden age now.
Where do they get their money from?
They get the money from mosques because we don’t have to forget that every Muslim, practicing Muslim has to pay zakat, this is a kind of yearly tax to the mosque and they pay it once to the mosque during the big festivals at the end of the month of Ramadan and they pay to the mosque. But at the same time it is proved that they get money even from Saudi Arabia. So, they have money, plenty of money and during the lasts Tunisian elections I was in touch with some liberal candidate and he said – ok, we can do everything but at the same time they have money, so they give bread to the people, they help people, they give some money to the people and people vote for them.
Who is their voting base?
The people voting for them?
Yes.
All kinds of people and especially middle low class, for instance in Egypt there are many generations who went to school in mosques. So, these are people who couldn’t afford private schools for their children, they send their children to the mosque, the mosque gave them instruction, bread and some pocket money and so these generations are all gained to the Muslim Brotherhood ideology. And there are people coming from the very low classes and of course they find help from the Muslim Brotherhood.
The Muslim Brotherhood was very, very clever especially in Egypt, they get where the government didn’t get. So, the government didn’t help people, it is the Muslim Brotherhood that help people. And from now everybody who got something from them they are going to vote them of course. So, in Egypt it would be very easy, I could even say that they are going to get at least 70% in the next elections.
70%, goodness!
Yes, they’ve managed to get almost 45% in Tunisia where they were really banned during the last years, especially in Ben-Ali period. In Egypt they were officially banned but at the same time they used to have their main office in the center of Cairo, everybody knew it, at the beginning of 2000 they got in Parliament as independent candidates and everybody knew that those 8 people came from the Muslim Brotherhood but not officially. They were banned but at the same time Sheikh Quaradawi’s books, this is the main reference from the religious point of view, the Sheikh of Aljazeera he is Egyptian, he was banned from Egypt but came back after the revolution, but during this time while he was in exile all his books were published by the main publisher in Egypt.
So, they were officially banned but at the same time tolerated and helped. So, in Egypt they really were there, they never left Egypt. So, they kept on working and it is very, very likely they will get the very, very big majority of the votes.
Valentine, tell me just how come they got so widespread in the region, I mean there is the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, in Jordan, there is Muslim Brotherhood in Syria, elsewhere. How come? Is it the one movement which has different branches or are they so different but in that case why are they named similarly?
No, they are all very similar and for instance when the Muslim Brotherhood started in Egypt, at a certain point they are banned in Egypt and so the Muslim Brotherhood start spreading outside. Many of them reached Syria, the other country which used to be their basis, their really main center. Then they were banned from Syria and they went to Europe but they spread all over the Middle East.
We don’t have to forget that Hamas is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. It’s stated if you read the Hamas Constitution, if I’m right it is article 2, it clearly says that Hamas is one of the Palestinian branches of the Muslim Brotherhood. So, you can realize that the Muslim Brotherhood hasn’t come to power for the first time in Tunisia last month but went to power with the Hamas some years ago. It is a global movement.
We don’t have to forget that the most of the Islamic associations in Europe are linked to the Muslim Brotherhood and what is really funny is that until some months ago most of these European Islamic associations linked to the Muslim Brotherhood denied to be linked to them. Now they start saying – yes, why not, we are linked to the Muslim Brotherhood because now they know that they are allowed to say that because now they are at power, they are going to win the elections in Egypt, and now they are a perfect partner for Western governments. So, they don’t need to hide anymore their true identity.
Another thing important to know about the Muslim Brotherhood is that they accept dissimilation, this is if you are in danger you can even say a lie, if your life is in danger, the Muslim Brotherhood is in danger you can be asked – do you belong to the Muslim Brotherhood? If you are in danger you may answer – of course not. And after a while when the situation is changed you can say the truth but you are allowed to dissimilate their positions and their beliefs in case of danger. So they are even called the masters of double speech.
So, what they write, if you have a look for instance to the Muslim Brotherhood website in English and the Muslim Brotherhood in Arabic it’s totally different, there are different views because the public is different. They perfectly know that with the West they have to speak and write in a certain way and with the Arab world they have to speak and write in another way.
But isn’t it strange that the West would be welcoming them because, well, of course we need to account for their, shall we say, political success in these days but from what you are saying it is absolutely obvious that these movements would be opposing all Western and US values in particular.
You are totally right, this is why it’s really astounding what’s happening now because one of the main ideas of the Muslim Brotherhood is their position against the West, against Israel, against the other in general. So, and it’s the basis of their thoughts, of course they are a political movement and so they know very well diplomacy, they know that now they have to be moderate. But you just need to have a look to their history and we don’t have to forget that Egyptians and Arabs, don’t forget that Sadat went in to terms with them and then he was killed by a member of Gama'at Islamiya which is a very strong radicalization of the movement of the Muslim Brotherhood.
So, if you get into terms with them you must be sure that something you will pay. But what is very strange is this position of the West, this position of the States, we’ll have a very bad consequence in the Arab world and in the Middle East, for instance the victory of the Muslim Brotherhood in Tunisia of course was welcomed by the West, was welcomed by the voters inside Tunisia but most of the people, that is the liberal people, intellectuals and whatever they just said – ok, this is another present by the West.
This means that you helped the Muslim Brotherhood to gain power, the Muslim Brotherhood which is very anti-Western ideology, at the same time you disappointed the other voters, the other people, the other side of the population and at the same time this population is getting more and more anti-Western, anti-US because they see that the West always helps the wrong people. So, I think that the West is really going to pay, very big mistake they are doing now.
But before that we’ll be witnessing like you said the golden age of Muslim Brotherhood in several countries, I suppose not only in Egypt. Is my understanding correct?
Yes, they started in Turkey with Erdogan, they started in Tunisia, now we’ll have of course Egypt. In November 25 we are going to have elections in Morocco for instance, there is a monarchy so there it’s not the case but I think they are going to win positions inside Morocco as well. In Libya, the Transitional Government is headed by the Muslim Brotherhood. Syria, whenever Assad will fall, the Muslim Brotherhood will have their win. Yemen, there is the Muslim Brotherhood already. In Jordan the monarchy is getting into terms with them trying to fight them back but they are very widespread. We don’t have to forget that most of the population in Jordan is Palestinian and so there are even members from Hamas, in Palestine we have Hamas.
So, it’s really global and now it’s legal. And what is really astounding as well of the behavior coming from the States is that movement like Hamas is in the list of terrorist movements in the States and Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood but at the same time the States will be pleased by the victory of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, but the basis is the same.
Absolutely astounding, it’s illogical!
It is astounding because it is illogical and it’s very clear, you don’t have to use a lot of brain because it’s their motto, their Constitution, their words, their writings, they said this, they’ve never denied this. And so the problem is that the West doesn’t want to see, doesn’t want to listen to their words and so we are going to have a very, very bad period and it’s very sad to say that if the Arab Spring turns into an Arab Winter it’s even thanks to the West.
Professor, thank you very much.
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